From: Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2020 9:40 PM

To: Bernard Hudson <loyolamd82@gmail.com>

Cc: Kelsey Coalition <kelseycoalition@gmail.com>; Natasha Chart <natasha.chart@gmail.com>; Richard Mast <RMast@LC.org>; Steve Smith <steve@stevesmithlaw.com>; Fred
Deutsch <drfred@deutschclinic.com>; Mary McAlister <mmcalister@childparentrights.org>; David Pickup <davidpickuplmft@gmail.com>; Eunie Smith <alaeagle@charter.net>;
Gary McCaleb <mccgsm@gmail.com>; Glenn Ridder <glenn.ridder@outlook.com>; Horvath Hacsi <birdcatcher9@yahoo.com>; James Shupe (Formerly Jamie Shupe)
<jamie.shupe@yahoo.com>; Michelle Cretella <drmcretella@gmail.com>; mike@drlaidlaw.com; Jane Robbins <rlrobb123@gmail.com>; Lappert Patrick
<patrick@lappertplasticsurgery.com>; MD Paul Hruz PhD <hruz_p007@att.net>; Margaret Clarke <margaretclarke317@icloud.com>; Matt Sharp <msharp@adflegal.org>; McHugh
Paul <pmchugh1@jhmi.edu>; Monique Robles MD <pamosa27@comcast.net>; Quentin Van Meter <kidendo@comcast.net>; Roger Brooks <rbrooks@adflegal.org>; Scott, Greg
<Greg.Scott@heritage.org>; Timothy Millea MD <TMillea@qcora.com>; Vernadette Broyles <vbroyles@childparentrights.org>; Walt Heyer <waltsbook@yahoo.com>; William
Malone <malone.will@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Idaho Vital Statistics Integrity Act - short window for comments - by Friday, January 24

Based on the feedback I will not include the quote from SEGM in the bill, amending (v) on page 2,
line 46-47 to simply state that the erasure of biological sex negatively impacts the health and
safety of all individuals. Then, any other evidence can be introduced in the hearing, rather than

being included in the bill. Also, I got some feedback from our vital statistics department today
which I have incorporated in the process piece of the bill (sections 4 and 5) and they suggested
using 'material fact' rather than vital statistics in most instances.

They have raised 2 other good questions:

1) In section 5, do we not want a medical authority to certify to the final designation of sex?
so, do we want to limit this to a particular type of medical authority?

If

2) The draft you have reviewed is silent on what happens if they do not resolve the indeterminate
status within the stipulated 3 years (section 5). We included this to prevent certificates from
being left in an unresolved status. However, kicking it to the courts after this time could become
problematic. What are the recommendations to resolve this?

I am attaching the current (final) draft :) for your comment.
Thank you for your help in ironing out these final wrinkles.

Representative Young

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 9:08 AM Bernard Hudson <loyolamd82@gmail.com> wrote:
Gee Whiz!

Humans are the only living species of Homo Sapiens. Given that fact, we are male and female,
there is no other. We are mammals, giving birth, carrying a XX or an XY, female or male.
Otherwise, a bizarre abnormality results in a state of disease: Turner’s Syndrome, Klinefelter’s
Syndrome, etc.

Everybody is transgender, no one is transsexual, cis-gender is true for everyone!
the nomenclature of non-science.

Non-binary?!?!?
Disneyland comes to science. You are non-binary, then what?
bee? A penguin in a European zoo? An ant? “I am Zero!”

Try not to use

A worm?

A worker

Listen: Talk to me! Be real! Stop! No, no, you meant to say that you are claiming something
that does not exist except in your mind? Got it? Your mind? Take a look, please. See? Right!
You are a male or female so stop with the rigamarole and talk to me now!

Throw out words or phrases that have have shifting definitions, political realms, identity's
unscientific, and whims and notions that are NEVER studied in science. Never!

I feel better.

BH
On Feb 4, 2020, at 9:44 AM, Kelsey Coalition <kelseycoalition@gmail.com> wrote:
Looks great! My only concern is with the quote from SEGM. Will, would you consider this?
First, the reference"cisgender-identifying individuals." I believe there is way to make
this point, without using a word like "cis" which indirectly endorses the ideology upon
which transgender identities are based.

My other suggestion with the quote is to add non-binary. Even though transgender has
become an umbrella term covering both, some nonbinary individuals do not say they are
transgender. Many forms offer both categories for people to check when they identify
themselves.

Will, could SEGM consider rewording this -- something like "not only transgender
individuals, but ALL persons" as well as add a reference to nonbinary? ~KC

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 10:35 AM Natasha Chart <natasha.chart@gmail.com> wrote:
This is great, I love it. Thank you for doing this.

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020, 9:43 AM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
After visiting with Stephen Smith last night I have determined that the best way to counter the arguments raised in the law-suit is the insert some additional
language into our legislative intent, rather than addressing another section of code. My additions are highlighted below. Your feedback is sincerely appreciated.

The legislature finds a compelling interest in maintaining accurate, quantitative, biology-based statistics on Idaho certificates of birth which provide vital statistics
fundamental to the performance of government functions that secure the public health and safety, including, but not limited to, identifying public health trends, assessing
risks, conducting criminal investigations, and helping individuals determine their biological lineage, citizenship, or susceptibility to genetic disorders; and,
The equality clause prohibits purposeful discrimination and not facially neutral laws of general applicability such as a biology-based definition of sex which has
been consistently applied since our nation's founding.
Decades of court opinion have upheld the argument that the biological distinctions between male and female justify separate but equal treatment under the law
and a defined category of sex which relies on biological fact is the only category which can be demonstrated to have obvious, immutable, and distinguishable
characteristics.
The definitional erasure of biological sex significantly impacts the rights of others and would constitute manifest injustice in undermining the implementation of
many policies which have been advanced to secure the privacy and interests of individuals specific to their biological sex.
The erasure of biological sex negatively impacts the health and safety of all individuals. For example, the Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine has
declared that “the conflation of sex and gender in healthcare is alarming and is poised to subject hundreds of thousands of transgender and cisgenderidentifying individuals to unintended medical harm from receiving incorrect diagnoses and being subjected to incorrect treatments. It will also greatly
impede scientific research, not only in the area of transgender treatments, which sorely lacks quality long-term outcome evidence, but also in other areas
of medical research.”
“Vital statistics” is defined in Idaho Code Section 39-241(21) as “data,” (being the plural of “datum”) which is a known fact; and,
Idaho certificates of birth are of an evidentiary character and prima facie evidence of the facts recited therein (Code Section 39-274); and,
Age and Sex, unlike the names of natural parents whose rights have been terminated, are legally applicable facts fundamental to the performance of public and
private policies and contracts.
The failure to maintain accurate, quantitative vital statistics and legal definitions upon which government and others may with confidence rely constitutes a breach
of the public trust; and
Government has a compelling interest in maintaining the public trust and confidence and a duty to fulfill, to the best of its ability, those functions which rely on
accurate vital statistics; and,
Therefore, the legislature directs that an Idaho certificate of birth documents specific quantitative, material facts at the time of birth: time of birth, date of birth,
place of birth and biological sex.

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:34 AM Richard Mast <RMast@lc.org> wrote:
All,

Please meet Steve Smith, an Idaho allied attorney, and Idaho Representative Julianne Young. They have been working on a birth certificate protection bill,
to reverse a recent court decision striking down sex-based birth certificates in Idaho. This will restore the status quo, making Idaho one of four states that
require birth certificates to reflect sex, along with Kansas, Ohio, and Tennessee.

Julianne has a short window to receive comments (especially desired from the medical experts).

Matt Sharp provided ADF factual findings for the recitals and some edits. I have accepted his changes; made a few suggested edits of my own, and thus
open it up to you all for any input for Julianne and Steve.

There may be an opportunity for expert testimony, but I leave the details on that to Rep. Young.

Thanks,

Richard L. Mast, Esq.*
Senior Litigation Counsel
Liberty Counsel
PO Box 540774
Orlando, FL 32854
(407) 875-1776 phone
(407) 875-0770 fax
LC.org

Offices in DC, FL, and VA
*Licensed in Virginia
This message and any attachment are intended for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, notify us
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer, because any distribution of this message by you is strictly
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organization.

--

www.KelseyCoalition.org

--

www.KelseyCoalition.org

--

www.KelseyCoalition.org

Sent:
To:
Cc:

2/22/2020 10:56:45 AM
"Kelsey Coalition" <kelseycoalition@gmail.com>
"Julianne Young" <juliannehyoung@gmail.com>, "Natasha Chart" <natasha.chart@gmail.com>, "Richard Mast" <RMast@lc.org>,
"Steve Smith" <steve@stevesmithlaw.com>, "Fred Deutsch" <drfred@deutschclinic.com>, "Mary McAlister"
<mmcalister@childparentrights.org>, "David Pickup" <davidpickuplmft@gmail.com>, "Eunie Smith" <alaeagle@charter.net>,
"Gary McCaleb" <mccgsm@gmail.com>, "Glenn Ridder" <glenn.ridder@outlook.com>, "Horvath Hacsi" <birdcatcher9@yahoo.com>,
"James Shupe (Formerly Jamie Shupe)" <jamie.shupe@yahoo.com>, "Michael Laidlaw" <mike@drlaidlaw.com>, "Jane Robbins"
<rlrobb123@gmail.com>, "Lappert Patrick" <patrick@lappertplasticsurgery.com>, "MD Paul Hruz PhD" <hruz_p007@att.net>,
"Margaret Clarke" <margaretclarke317@icloud.com>, "Matt Sharp" <msharp@adflegal.org>, "McHugh Paul"
<pmchugh1@jhmi.edu>, "Monique Robles MD" <pamosa27@comcast.net>, "Quentin Van Meter" <kidendo@comcast.net>, "Roger
Brooks" <rbrooks@adflegal.org>, "Timothy Millea MD" <TMillea@qcora.com>, "Vernadette Broyles"
<vbroyles@childparentrights.org>, "Walt Heyer" <waltsbook@yahoo.com>, "William Malone" <malone.will@gmail.com>, "Scott,
Greg" <Greg.Scott@heritage.org>, sjvick@senate.idaho.gov
Subject: Re: Idaho Vital Statistics Integrity Act - short window for comments - by Friday, January 24

Katherine’s point gets at the heart of what transgenderism is really about: State tyranny.
There’s no medical test to diagnose transgender because no one is born in the wrong body; no one is born
transgender. It is a lie. And we are talking about the State forcing ALL citizens to participate in that lie.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 22, 2020, at 1:36 PM, Kelsey Coalition <kelseycoalition@gmail.com> wrote:

Just to expand a bit on the parent argument...it not simply the state being complicit in a legal fiction
(that a girl was actually born a boy), but it is the state compelling an unwilling party to party to that
legal fiction...parents whose legal records state they gave birth to a son when they really gave birth to a
daughter.
Haven't had a chance to watch the hearing, but was this argument part of the testimony?

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 11:22 AM Kelsey Coalition <kelseycoalition@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you, Julianne. Have you considered the argument from the parent perspective? When birth certificates
are changed, they create a legal fiction involving unwilling parents: That a mother who gave birth to a
daughter gave birth to a son, and vice versa. As recently as last month, a mother wrote to us expressing
absolute shock that her young adult daughter can change her birth certificate without her permission. As she
stated, she and her husband do not want their names connected to a "blatant lie."
FYI, to encourage people to write to Idaho House members, I tweeted out a link to the bill and the House
Members' emails here:
https://twitter.com/CoalitionKelsey/status/1231246802189475842?s=20

If any of you are on twitter, please retweet. Thank you! -K
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 9:42 AM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
The House State Affairs committee sent our bill to the floor on a party line vote with a do-pass
recommendation.
We had some great testimony (in opposition) from the National Organization of Women representative, Janelle
Winterstein. Janelle opposed the bill, suggesting that it is uncharacteristic of the acceptance and
kindness she has felt from Idahoans, including many of the more conservative members of the state affairs
committee. It seems that this testimony would be a great benefit should a court be seeking evidence that
this bill is motivated by animus.
Our strongest opposition came from the Lambda Legal Attorney who represented the plaintiffs in F.V. v
Barron (a very tall woman if you're skimming the video looking for her testimony). She countered some of
my statements which suggested that this issue has not been robustly examined based on it's impacts on
public policy and the state generally because the state conceded everything and the arguments make (based
on the West Law minutes) addressed only the interests of the agency and not the public at large. She
argued that everything I brought up had already been heard and considered by the court and that they have
already decided this issue. By passing this bill, we are placing the DHW in a position to be found in
contempt of court. This argument, coupled with the court costs may sway moderate republicans in the House
and could stop the bill in the Senate if we don't have a strong counter-argument on the House floor. It
could be up for debate on the floor as soon as next Tuesday and must be transmitted to the Senate by the
end of the week.
The video of the hearing is available
here: https://legislature.idaho.gov/sessioninfo/2020/standingcommittees/HSTA/ . It does take awhile to
open. It was about a 2 hour hearing. There was a very short bill right before mine but it only took a
couple of minutes. Most of the file is our bill.
Counter arguments I am considering include:
The proposed statute complies with the requirement of the injunction in that the statute does not
automatically reject applications to amend this category of material facts, but establishes a process by
which those applications may be reviewed and considered. This process protects the interest of the state
in ensuring the accuracy of material statistics.
The legislature rejects the argument that biological sex is gender identity.
Courts are required to
observe the definitions established in the law. The legislative branch, including on the federal level,
has consistently acted on a biological definition of sex. Yet, this court relied upon the conflation of
sex and gender identity in issuing their ruling. The conflation of these terms in the law severely
undermines the compelling interest of the state and jeopardizes the health and safety of all Idahoans.
Sex specific policies have been upheld by the courts for decades specifically because of the material
distinctions between male and female, statistically speaking. If we accept the premise that these
distinctions are irrelevant, that sex is gender identity irrespective of biological fact, we must also find
that all sex-based distinctions are discriminatory.
I would sincerely appreciate legal feedback and suggestions.
Julianne Young

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 7:34 AM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
The Idaho Vital Statistics Act will be heard tomorrow morning in State Affairs. Our meetings are usually
at 9 but I won't be surprised if we start at 8 AM. It will be available live online or recorded if any
are interested in listening. We may get some ideas that will help as we head to the Senate.
On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 2:59 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone have a contact in the research and statistics world or someone in the insurance industry
(medical or car) that could provide a statement explaining the value of accurate information regarding
biological sex as a qualifying characteristic for sex specific differences in policies, etc? These are
research based private policies. When we fundamentally alter the legal definition of sex we undercut
their ability to effectively implement those research-based policies.
On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 6:05 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
I am adding Senator Steve Vick to this email group. He will be carrying the bill on the Senate side.
We are on the agenda to print the bill in House State Affairs on Thursday and are working toward a full
hearing a week from Wednesday. Welcome Senator Vick! We are glad to have you on board!
Julianne Young
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 9:54 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
And one last document-- This is an op-ed/ press statement if it passes muster:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z8k-zehU6_j9JN-iHbG5-NV1LeQrlddM3Cryl_LXzFw/edit
Feel free to comment on it and mark it up.
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 4:31 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you all so much for your help and input. Here is an outline of talking points. Please weigh in
and share cautions, resources, or additional ideas. Our full hearing will be a week from Wednesday.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FckQ5aKuniUTqJ8psNrWRRIYTNzn84uqLvQWRyj4FGI/edit
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 8:12 AM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Friends,
Attached below is the draft which we RS'd on Friday. The Lord is blessing our efforts! We anticipate
a print hearing in House State Affairs this Wednesday and a full hearing towards the beginning of next
week. I am working on talking points and a press release. We need to keep our messaging very
controlled. Also, I would welcome input on plans for public testimony at the hearing. I am working
on some drafts which I will post ASAP.
Julianne Young
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 1:38 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
Any last comments are invited. We'll RS at the end of the day.

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 2:27 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
And one more small change from our attorney general in 39-245A (1) (iv) and (v).
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 9:56 AM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
And with one more small change in (4) as recommended by ADF.
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 5:53 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
I was able to visit with Matt Sharpe at ADF about my previous questions and have incorporated what
I believe is a much improved strategy in section (5). I am sending this final draft [vital
statistics draft(3) attached below] to you, to ADF , and to our folks here a vital statistics.
Hopefully we are near or at our final draft so that we can work on securing support from the
governor's office. Leadership appears to be supportive so I have good reason to hope we will soon
have a hearing. Thank you again for your help!
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 12:19 PM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
In regard to the last question: a colleague who is an attorney suggested that a better approach
may be to stipulate that the physician make a presumptive determination of male or female and
that after undergoing the appropriate combination of genetic analysis and evaluation of the
individual's naturally occurring internal and external reproductive anatomy a signed affidavit
from the parents and the physician may be submitted within 3 years or the presumptive
determination may be challenged in a court as stipulated in (4). This eliminates the potential
for an open-ended indeterminate status.
Thoughts on this idea?
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 11:55 AM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
My apologies if this is redundant. I have tried to 'reply all' in order to share this with the
larger group but I'm not sure that it worked. If you could ensure that the larger group has
access to this request I would appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Our vital statistics folks in the Department of Health and Welfare have raised some questions
which we have attempted to address in the attached draft. Their comments focused primarily on
39-245A (4) and (5).
They wanted to ensure that the language stipulated that the affidavit be one provided by the
department and asked that we make some changes in formatting to make the process more clear to
the public. I believe the changes to (4) are straightforward.
They raised some good questions regarding (5) though:
1- Our current language does not require verification from a medical professional that the
appropriate chromosomal analysis and evaluation of anatomy has taken place and that the decision
of sex is appropriate based on that analysis and evaluation.
2- Our language is silent about what happens if they don't resolve the indeterminate status
within the three years. Do we need to specify that it can be resoled in court after this? Do
we need to specify any requirements should that be the case?

The drafter and I took a stab at it in the attached draft.
Thank you to those who are providing review on this!

Again, feedback is appreciated.

Representative Young
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 11:06 AM Julianne Young <juliannehyoung@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you receive the email I attempted to add as 'reply to all' with the questions raised by our
Department of Health and Welfare vital statistics folks?
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 10:41 AM Richard Mast <RMast@lc.org> wrote:
The comment was re SEGM language; I second the motion to stay away from “separate but equal.â€​ “Differential treatmentâ€​ is fine.

Richard L. Mast, Esq.*
Senior Litigation Counsel
Liberty Counsel
PO Box 540774
Orlando, FL 32854
(407) 875-1776 phone
(407) 875-0770 fax
LC.org

Offices in DC, FL, and VA
*Licensed in Virginia